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Meadows Got Immunity and Spoke with Jack Smith at Least Three Times

Four of the 19 RICO defendants in Georgia have now flipped and it is likely that many more will, if for no other reason than they can't afford the legal fees to mount a full-blown defense. Of the 15 remaining defendants, two are Big Fish (Donald Trump and Rudy Giuliani), three are medium fish (Mark Meadows, Jeff Clark, and John Eastman), and the rest are guppies. We expect all the guppies to swim over to the other side before too long, get fines of $5,000 or so, and be told to ask ChatGPT to write heartfelt letters of apology to the people of Georgia.

Of the medium fish, Meadows is by far the most important because he knows the most about Trump's mental state on Jan. 6 as well as his actions (or lack thereof) and his motivation concerning them. As we mentioned yesterday, albeit very briefly, it has now come out that Special Counsel Jack Smith requested immunity for Meadows in order to get him to testify under oath and Chief Judge of the U.S. District Court in D.C. James Boasberg signed off on it. This means that what Meadows told/tells Smith under oath may not be used against him in court. He hasn't been federally indicted, though he is almost certainly an unindicted co-conspirator and could yet be indicted. But if he spills the beans on the Big Fish, Smith may well be willing to also let him off with a $5,000 fine and a letter signed by ChatGPT. He is not thought to be wealthy and the idea of paying lawyers $500,000 to defend himself in multiple cases (and still losing) may not be appealing.

Sources have told ABC News that Meadows has already had at least three lovely chats with Smith and he didn't invoke the Fifth Amendment in any of them. Meadows says he told Trump many times after the election that he lost and it was over. Meadows says he also told Trump that there was no evidence of any fraud and that the 2020 election was the most secure in U.S. history. He says he also told Trump that Giuliani hunted for fraud but came up empty. Meadows' testimony in court will make it much harder for Trump to claim that he genuinely thought he won, particularly when several former Trump lawyers back Meadows' version of events.

Meadows also set up the call between Trump and Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger (R) and was in the office when Trump made the call. Smith undoubtedly asked him about every detail of the call and what Trump was trying to obtain from Raffensperger.

What is somewhat awkward is that a year after the election, Meadows published a book about being the chief's chief. He supposedly told Smith that it is full of lies, lies that were intended to protect Trump and buff his (Meadows') own image. Smith is an old pro and, armed with the Jan. 6 Committee's report, surely knew what questions to ask Meadows. If Meadows has truly gone over to the other side in the federal case, how long before he does it in the Georgia case (where he has been formally indicted) as well? (V)

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